phinnia: smiling dolphin face (house/olivia-!)
phinnia ([personal profile] phinnia) wrote2009-02-08 02:32 pm

clickies

Today we ALMOST went to the children's museum! we did actually meet [livejournal.com profile] tiggrrl and her sweet little sproglet, but we got horribly lost before that and the wheelchair for some reason didn't charge and AUGH. but we did get to have snacks together. and we're going to attempt the park next week (here's hoping.)

clickies:

All of these I think I've seen more than once on my flist; i just forget who.

Jennifer Mather, squid psychologist.

interview with terry pratchett about his alzheimer's and his best work.

This one is especially important to me because it's a HUGE pet peeve of mine: the founder of the antivaccine movement faked the autism/vaccine link. I know there are a few legitimate reasons for not vaccinating or for delaying vaccinating (egg allergies, bad reactions to previous vaccines, kids with immune system problems) but the majority of kids get more benefit than not. (not to mention that bloody woman (Jenny McCarthy i think her name is) that was on Oprah or whatever show it was claiming that she cured her son and blahblah about vaccines are so bad and they caused the kid's autism? she's a former playboy bunny. she does not have an ounce of medical training. and yet people are willing to take her word on this.)

(sorry. i just really hate the whole thing. hatehatehate. it's like giving children raw milk instead of pasturized. there's a reason kids used to die in the middle ages.)

[identity profile] euclase.livejournal.com 2009-02-08 11:04 pm (UTC)(link)
Ugh. Humanity is spoiled. And also apparently very forgetful. Because smallpox and polio are SO MUCH MORE AWESOME than autism. Especially smallpox. "I would trader autism for smallpox any day, and so would any parent of an autistic child" (quote I heard once on TV--I think Larry King live, actually).

WOULD YOU REALLY? REALLY?

Ugh. Wtf. Middle ages, indeed.

[identity profile] tiggrrl.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 07:02 am (UTC)(link)
I'd venture to guess these are not people who know about the, "and then their entire skin sloughed off and their intestines came out their anus and they died in miserable pain," aspects of smallpox. My guess is these are people of the, "smallpox must be just a little worse than chicken pox," variety.

[identity profile] magie-05.livejournal.com 2009-02-08 11:11 pm (UTC)(link)
AWW, well I'm glad you had fun, but hope you get to go to the museum soon, sounds like fun :)

GARRRR I hate some of the vaccine stuff, too. Just don't get me started on Jenny McCarthy.

[identity profile] arhh.livejournal.com 2009-02-08 11:17 pm (UTC)(link)
*hugs*

All I can think of now when I hear people go on about vaccines and how 'bad' they are (a bunch of crap- I am sure they were right in line for their polio and MMR vaccines) is that episode of House where House went on in that cheery tone about baby coffin colors LOL :)

[identity profile] taiga13.livejournal.com 2009-02-08 11:21 pm (UTC)(link)
Idiots! Having measles is "natural", they say. It sure is, but so is dying from it.

[identity profile] maladaptive.livejournal.com 2009-02-08 11:49 pm (UTC)(link)
God the comments to that antivax post fill me with rage. There's people that're all "well my kid [X] after getting vaccinated! It was the vaccine, logically!"

I broke my leg after eating fish. Logically, fish eating causes leg breakage.

Logic is not people's strong suit, and I wish they would stop appealing to it like it was some kind of voodoo god of selective coincidence.
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[personal profile] phoenixsong 2009-02-09 03:14 pm (UTC)(link)
I broke my ankle showing off a new dress to my dad for my first dance. Therefore, shopping causes broken ankles!

(Uh, no, but twirling on ceramic tiles...)

[identity profile] joe-pike-junior.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 01:20 am (UTC)(link)
The whole antivaccine/antiantivaccine furore is one of those things that makes me especially pessimistic about the human race.

Someone implies that there may be a link between the thiomersal mercury compound vaccine preservative and autism. A lot of alarmism ensues, especially since mercury is easily recognised as being DANGEROUS. So a thousand soccer moms get all up in arms and start sprouting pseudomedical crap, as well as assuming it was the actual vaccine and not the ingredient used to preserve some vaccines which was suspected of causing autism. I guess that was too tenuous for them. So a thousand doctors get all up in arms and start sprouting very sarcastic medical crap.

When certain medical bodies decided to remove the thiomersal preservative from vaccines, a lot of groups decided this was an admission of guilt and that this ingredient CAUSED AUTISM. Never that the medical establishment was simply being precautionary and removing a potentially otherwise toxic ingredient. Autism diagnosis rates did not fall.

It all causes this huge backlash and people start saying very stupid things. I just wish I could innoculate the entire debate with anti-stupid, because after a while both sides start to sound equally shrill and petty. Nobody looks at it scientifically and the research pretty much gets buried under a snowstorm of conflicting ideology.

One teeny correction: By then, though, it was too late, and the modern antivaccination movement was born. Not so. People have been anti-vaccination since Salk stabbed his first volunteer. It's just one of those things.

[identity profile] presocratic.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 02:12 am (UTC)(link)
I love children's museums. :D Here's hoping you guys get to go soon.

[identity profile] amy-119.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 02:25 am (UTC)(link)
I know there are a few legitimate reasons for not vaccinating or for delaying vaccinating (egg allergies, bad reactions to previous vaccines, kids with immune system problems) but the majority of kids get more benefit than not.

it's like giving children raw milk instead of pasturized. there's a reason kids used to die in the middle ages.


*applauds* *STANDING OVATION, EVEN* That really irritates me too. UGH. People are so stupid sometimes.

[identity profile] deelaundry.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 03:40 am (UTC)(link)
Jenny McCarthy needs to go away NOW. The money and effort and anger being spent on anti-vaccination crap needs to go toward FINDING MORE EFFECTIVE TREATMENTS and FUNDING SUPPORT SERVICES.

[identity profile] machineplay.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 03:48 am (UTC)(link)
I nearly died from my vaccines as a child. Seizures, foaming at the mouth and nose, fever of 107 (yes, ONE ZERO SEVEN) that wouldn't come down, and I was hospitalized. 39 years later, the spot on my arm STILL hurts. I have neurological issues. Rob's cousin had a violent reaction to a vaccine in her teens that permanently crippled her with severe fibromyalgia. She went from being in the running for the Olympic diving team to walking with a cane and finishing high school at home.

I still got Mys vaccinated. My rules were that she had to be completely healthy at the time. She ate nothing but organic, vegetarian foods leading up to her vaccinations. We dosed her with anti-inflammatories that she had taken in the past and homeopathics for her immune system. She was breast-fed. She had ONE vaccination at a time, because I didn't want her to miss out on her other vaccines because she had one bad reaction. The Dr. thought this was brilliant even though he had to special-order everything, given our family history he thought it was worth it, and started suggesting it to nervous parents. We got to do this because we live in Canada and even though our gross income was $5/mo. LESS than our rent, we had full coverage for the vaccines, any way we wanted them.

Oh, and as a note, at the time that Mys had her first vaccine there were SEVEN pediatric Diptheria cases in the hospital across the street. Seven. It is the world's most resurgent disease with a 5%-10% mortality rate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diptheria

(I will note that Mys made her own choice not to get the Gardasil vaccine. We looked at tests that are showing that it has questionable effectiveness and she felt that she ran the chance of it wearing off before she was sexually active. She plans to get whatever variant exists at the same time she takes care of b/c, when she's ready.)

[identity profile] benjimmy.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 05:36 am (UTC)(link)
Ah, yes, I had a reaction to the DPT vaccine when I was 2 months old. Seizure, projectile vomiting, fever, loss of consciousness, and I stopped breathing for over a minute. The pertussis portion of the vaccine has been linked to encephalitis in some rare cases. My mom informed the doctors and continued with my vaccinations, but they didn't give me the P part of the DPT again. The reasoning, of course, being that if I had that bad a reaction to it the first time, I probably had a sensitivity to that particular thing. None of my other vaccinations caused any problems, except a mild fever when I got my measles vax updated when I was 18. I think that was a reasonable approach.

Some people are sensitive to certain things. I don't believe autism is caused by vaccinations, although I won't outright refute the possibility-- I believe it'd be far more likely for a kid to contract measles from a measles vaccine than autism.

I think it might be like the apparent link between hallucinogenic drugs and schizophrenia. LSD can 'cause' a person to become schizophrenic, but only if they had an existing predisposition, because of the chemical reactions in the dopaminanergic things or whatever... And who's to say they wouldn't have gotten it anyway, just later on? A possibility, however slim, of some 'triggering' effect.

If I have kids, I of course plan on getting them vaccinated. If they're my own biological kids, not adopted ones, I'll just let their doctor know of my own reaction, and see what he says.

[identity profile] joe-pike-junior.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 02:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Ah, yes, I had a reaction to the DPT vaccine when I was 2 months old.
My aunt had that too. I didn't get the DTP, I got them all separately*. The doctor looked at my mum funny when she insisted that I didn't have the vaccine until I was older, since I was born premature and was still all tiny and red and uggers. I don't blame her for not wanting me to have it at that time.

The ugly part of the debate is that anyone who asks for caution in vaccinating (like my parents) gets treated like a raging hippy. Well, my parents were and are raging hippies, but what they aren't are idiots. It's an emotive debate that often boils down to ideology versus ideology, not rationality and epidemiology. Take the measles vaccine. It's a very virulent disease, so to provide coverage and quell an epidemic I believe that around 97% of people have to be vaccinated.

*I've had pertussis. I got it at fifteen along with five or so people from my school. Either the vaccine wears off or it doesn't provide full coverage. Again, it's an epidemiology thing.

[identity profile] benjimmy.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 02:24 pm (UTC)(link)
Yeah, there's a difference between caution and almost-psychotic paranoia.

[identity profile] joe-pike-junior.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Yes. And this is why the vaccine debate annoys me -- everyone attacks everyone else, and it all gets buried under the argument, not the facts. It's infected with stupid!

[identity profile] benjimmy.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 03:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Yip. Seems to be the way most things are, from medicine to religion, to gay marriage-- it's all people attacking each other.

[identity profile] topaz-eyes.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 05:05 pm (UTC)(link)
If you got the whole-cell pertussis vaccine, yes the immunity does wear off. This wasn't known until almost all the younger children were vaccinated, so the disease started showing up in older kids instead. Now there is an acellular vaccine that is used across the board, with boosters recommended every 10 years for adults like diphtheria and tetanus.

The anti-vax people drive me crazy. I spent a few years on a health discussion board. You are right, it's all ideology. There is a reason why the # of measles cases is rising in the US.

[identity profile] joe-pike-junior.livejournal.com 2009-02-10 05:58 am (UTC)(link)
It also seems to be called something different, now -- triple antigen instead of DTP or whatever.

[identity profile] tiggrrl.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 07:09 am (UTC)(link)
Yeah, we broke up The Girl's vaccinations and spaced them out more that the standard, because we didn't want her coping with too many at a time. She hasn't had a bad reaction yet (*knock wood*). I think spacing things out, and doing one at a time is totally reasonable, and I even understand not vaccinating for, say, chicken pox. Back when they used live polio vaccine (and just about the only way kids in the U.S. got polio at that time was from the vaccine) I could have understood skipping that too. Now that the thiomersal is gone, and live vaccines aren't being used, it's pretty hard to understand not vaccinating against something that could kill your kid and other kids.
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[identity profile] awils1.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 08:00 am (UTC)(link)
You're not the only one. *big sigh*

I may have an autoimmune disorder of odd causes (i.e. no research into why), and Asperger's as a extremely unlikely of my mother using extremely large amounts of Mylanta while I was in the womb, but I still would rather have all that than be handicapped because of polio, or dead because of smallpox.

Did you get the link I sent you?

[identity profile] phinnia.livejournal.com 2009-02-10 06:06 am (UTC)(link)
i messaged you back - i think you forgot the link again, hon. <3 i got text but no link. *hughug*
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[identity profile] daisylily.livejournal.com 2009-02-09 12:55 pm (UTC)(link)
The whole point of vaccinating against measles (just to mention one of the diseases) is that it can cause horrible brain damage. I can't believe the bits quoted in that article about "is it because of parents working". WHAT?!

GAH.

I join you in your hatred.